Sunday, May 10, 2015

Very Disturbing Gerson Clinic FAQ

I came across this in the FAQ section of the Northern Baja Healing Center, which offers Gerson protocol though it is not the Gerson center in Mexico.  Well, I think that this speaks for itself so I do not have much to say, but I want to correct one or two things here.  Children are not an "entity of the state".  They can sometimes be made wards of the court if they are being neglected, and medical neglect would fall under this.  Also, it is not "illegal" to treat cancer with nothing but chemo, radiation, and surgery.  What is illegal is having a person who is not a real doctor offering non-evidence-based quackery as "the cure" for cancer.  That is what is illegal.  Think about the message this man is sending for a minute. A child diagnosed with leukemia who gets conventional treatment has an incredibly high chance of being cured of their cancer and living a normal lifespan.  A child with this same illness who goes to one of these clinics instead will die of their cancer.   Naturally there are quite a lot of people out there who are desperate to protect a child from this fate, and it is incredibly disturbing to me that this man offers advice on how to circumvent this.  A child has no ability to make decisions about his or her medical care because most of it is outside their understanding.  A child often has a limited concept of the permanence of death.   A child has a difficult time understanding that going through something incredibly unpleasant now will reap great rewards for the future.  It is for all these reasons that adults must make medical decisions of the child's behalf.  If a child with a treatable cancer gets taken to this place, he or she is going to die of their cancer.  This isn't "another option" or an "alternative"; it's a death sentence.

39 comments:

  1. Is it just me or does that whole thing read with the same creepy tone that you can imagine a pedophile would use when grooming a child.

    Don't tell anybody they will try and stop us seeing each other.
    I'm the one that REALLY loves you. They don't have you interests at heart.

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    1. A great deal of "alt med" is reminiscent of grooming. I agree though that because this has to do with children, it is especially disturbing.

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    2. I was at that clinic with my partner. She has since passed. Every person I met at that clinic passed. Vickers is lowest of the lowest scum. I pray karma gets him for all the harm and pain he has caused families. Please if u are considering going or no some one. Contact me and save your money and time and spend it with your family not a bunch of quacks

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    3. If you want to contact me I have some interesting news on vickers.
      paultptennis@hotmail.co.uk
      I agree this guy should be stopped pushing his "cancer cure" around the world. He's making millions

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    4. I agree with anonymous.
      I found Dr Vickers to be a wholly unethical scammer with NO training in medicine or cancer care.
      He speaks authodritatively and talks about how he "lived with " Dr. Gerson's daughter CHarlorte and "learned the technique".

      He takes $5,500 a week for an array of wholly unproven "detoxifying" and nutritional based methods- none of which were ever proven clinically to have any use.

      Pleas write me so that we can report this man's scheming methods, taking advantage of desperate , usually working class people without these outrageous funds.

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    5. Hello Lisa,
      I'd like to know more about your take on Dr Vickers. I was considering going to the Gerson Institute and saw his website as well. Do you know the differences between the two institutes?
      You can contact me at hypnojc@gmail.com
      Thank you!
      JC

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    6. Same here... Went with my husband in 2013 and his heath RAPIDLY declined at this center. Vickers had no compassion and I believe he prays on people who are at the END of their rope. I DO believe in natural care, but this is not the place. One night, when my husband was doing that therapy where they take your blood out and do something to it, then put the blood back in your body, I thought he was dying....he thought he was dying. I don't know, but we both felt that he almost died that day, and the cancer was over a year from killing him. Dr Vickers was not concerned in the least.
      Interested in any information... meghan_mary@yahoo.com
      Yes, my husband and everyone we met there has died.

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  2. Violet, you know by now that anything relating to Gerson is what saddens and makes me angry the most. Adding children to that is criminal and extremely disturbing.

    This Baja Healing Centre is run by Patrick Vickers who had a falling out with Charlotte Gerson as he wanted to incorporate additional ....(err more Money Making) treatments into the Therapy. If anyone is interested, there are interview videos with Vickers and that other beacon of truth, Chris Wark on www.chrisbeatcancer.com

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  3. "Also, it is not "illegal" to treat cancer with nothing but chemo, radiation, and surgery. " Specifically, Prostate Cancer is also treated in the U.S.A. with Androgen Deprivation Therapy (not chemotherapy but elimination of testosterone, which prostate cancer depends on initially, from the body), focal cryotherapy, focal laser ablation, and focussed ultrasound heating (effectiveness is debated) and researchers are studying various other medications and "supplements", and other techniques for destroying prostate tumours non-invasively.
    Those just the ones I can think of for the cancer I am a survivor of.
    But treatment with "Gerson Protocol" means an exhausting, expensive, regime with no cancer treatment effectiveness.

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    1. You've hit the nail on the head, David. These alternative medicine maniacs overlook the fact that cancer treatment is nuanced and highly personalised. It's risible to suggest that dying children are forced into homogeneous treatment regimes because of "government corruption." The fact is, oncologists want their patients to be cured, especially perhaps when they are children. And even a corrupt, mercenary oncologist would benefit more from saving lives than destroying them.

      It's also terrifically dangerous to suggest that parents of children with cancer should "disappear and do the Gerson Therapy somewhere [they] could not be found." He's effectively encouraging parents to abduct and hide children in urgent need of medical care, especially if only one parent is in favour of Gerson.

      And if this guy is going to suggest that he's personally seen "many children die because they were forced to get chemo and radiation when they could have been saved with a natural therapy," he's going to have to produce evidence for all the elements of that claim. Case histories, research affirming that "natural therapies" cure cancer, the works. I guess we'll be seeing that about the same time as Candice produces her "report."

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    2. I am 100% sure that what he has seen every single are children who have already had some conventional treatment and then come to his clinic and who then naturally die of their cancers after doing Gerson therapy. He blames the "damage from chemo" so that he can sleep at night.

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    3. He claims that he has done a clinical study, available "upon request". I'd love to get a look at that.

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    4. It is so completely baffling to me why these people who claim to have the "suppressed" cure for cancer are completely unwilling to publish anything whatsoever proving it. It goes even further with people like Candice-Marie Fox who refuses to publish the proof of her claims. I mean, surely it would be to their benefit to do this. Anyone out there thinking of doing Gerson, please keep in mind that there is absolutely nothing stopping these people from publishing the clinical proof of their methods, yet they never do so. They claim that big medicine is against them, but they have complete control over what they put on their websites, and they never, EVER publish any science whatsoever. You would think they would want to if what they are saying has any validity at all.

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    5. Candice-Marie's Mark Simon and his NORI institute also should publish in proper scientific journals, if their claims were true. Fame and Nobel Prize money awaits him. Instead he's planning to expand into multiple clinics, reaping profits from his "cure" rather than letting doctors worldwide confirm that it works, which would give access to the cure to the millions who need a cancer cure. That's typical quack - making money being the priority.
      NORI does say they presented at a "Society for Integrative Oncology" quackfest, but the standard for conference papers is very low, and even lower for posters.

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    6. Yeah I just don't get it. If these people have some cure for cancer, then why would they not publish a series of scientifically rigorous studies? Oh, right....
      It's sort of like me demanding that Candice-Marie Fox offer proof of what she says. It is just SO upsetting to her. It is so upsetting, that she actually thinks its a police matter. I mean, if she was telling the truth then she should want to provide the proof. These people are all the same. The Gerson institute has had more than 50 years to provide the proof of their claims and they still refuse to do so. Instead, they attack their detractors. This is very typical of liars. Liars will try and discredit those who call them liars instead of providing the proof of their claims.

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    7. Yep, Gerson clinics, Burzinski, NORI, Cannibis cancer cure people etc. - where's the evidence? They have sales tactics, not evidence.

      I still think Candice-Marie Fox is mainly mistaken about her radio-iodine treatment's time line and effectiveness. What do we mean proof? She's shown other people (the local paper and Chris Wark) her time line, diagnosis, post-iodine scan amd blood test results, which is all she thinks she needs as proof - it's what convinced her!
      Admittedly the rest of her story is inconsistent and crazy - random doctors telling her she's got 5 years to live when she has an eminently treatable condition? I guess the first could have said "without treatment you'll be dead within 5 years" - it could be part of the informed consent for the treatment.

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    8. Ah yes, the much-mythologised five-year diagnosis.

      She said someone gave her a "90% survival rate...from doing it their way." So my theory is this: her oncologist told her the overall "5-year survival rate" for papillary thyroid carcinoma was 90+ percent. She then asked them what would happen, hypothetically, if she declined treatment. The oncologist told her she would probably die without treatment, eventually. In Candice's mind, that was a five year prognosis, the "scare tactics" she referred to.

      Candice is still under the impression that the surgery and radiation failed. So once it was all over she assumed that she had five years to live.

      Of course, what would be great at this point is a simple statement, in writing, from Candice's treating oncologist that she was at some point given five years to live. The oncologist would have to be responsible for, or at least aware of, that prognosis, if in fact it was issued.

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    9. At this point I would be content with a simple statement from her oncologist (a real one, not Mark Simon) that she ever had cancer. There is simply no actual proof that this is the case. Given that she has definitely lied about many things, I don't see any reason to give her the benefit of the doubt.

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    10. I still think she did have thyroid cancer. It's not an uncommon condition, and is no respecter of persons.

      Much of what she relates rings true, except that she hasn't understood it herself. I don't think she has it in her to fabricate a cancer story from scratch. I don't think we're dealing with a Belle-Gibson-style fraud here. Just someone who had cancer, had it treated effectively, but largely misunderstood the details of her condition, treatment, and recovery. She's now using the cancer myth she's cobbled together to found a Candice-Marie Fox empire.

      I'm still persuaded that she believes she cured her own cancer. She's wrong, though, and she needs to admit she is wrong. Pitching that ludicrous story to the public is unconscionable, no matter how ignorant she is personally. When confronted with the facts, she should calmly and coolly accept that she has been wrong, and tell the truth.

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    11. I agree with you Ella. I think CMF misinterpreted "5-year survival" as something along the lines of "you have 5 years left to survive".

      Additionally, she strikes me as someone who may not be able to grasp survival rates and how they apply to populations and not necessary individuals. Much like many in the alt health world anecdote and personal experience trumps the cold clinical world of reality-based medicine

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    12. Exactly. She quite recently claimed to be "living proof" that alternative medicine works. The fact that she is alive is not actually proof that alternative medicine works, any more than the fact that I don't have Ebola is proof that eating a great deal of chocolate prevents Ebola.

      I'll keep saying it, in case she's reading: if Candice is going to publicly make this extraordinary claim then she does need to furnish the public with evidence of that claim - specifically that she was given five years to live, that the surgery and radiation was NOT successful, and that the lifestyle changes she made WERE responsible for her recovery. She claimed that her oncologist affirmed this, so it should be pretty straightforward to get the oncologist on record.

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  4. Cases like this make me absolutely furious. Children may not be "an entity of the state", but they sure as hell aren't a "possession of their parent/s" either**. I'm sure most people here will have heard about the appalling recent Australian instance of the parents of a 7 year old boy with Type I Diabetes paying one of the rankest quacks I've ever heard of (and that's saying something) nearly $2000AUD to starve & beat him to death. Well, their intention was presumably to rid him of the Diabetes - but any reasonably educated parent would surely know the dangers of withdrawing Insulin & starving a kid with Type I Diabetes for 3 days, let alone the rest.

    The case mentioned above is, in my opinion, even worse. I shall never understand what it is about the term "natural" in relation to healthcare which makes some parents imagine it means "less distressing to the child". At least, I really hope that is the motivation...

    **I realize that many places around the world do in fact consider children to be more or less "the property of their parents" especially disturbingly as far as their choice of "medical treatment" - but a cursory glance at the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child chalks up 11 direct contraventions to their 37 Innate Rights by my count if this person unilaterally decides to take their child to Mexico. Numbers 6, 7, 12, 14 and in particular 19: "Children have the right to good quality health care – the best health care possible – to safe drinking water, nutritious food, a clean and safe environment, and information to help them stay healthy" would surely be contravened if this individual were to go ahead with this course of action?

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    1. Could I put the word "surely" in there a few more times? ;-) I somehow "disappeared" my first version of this comment which I would like to think was just a little more readable!

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    2. It seemed pretty readable to me, Peta!

      The laws we have in place are designed to protect the rights and health of children, and when the laws are rigorously and sensitively enforced, they do exactly that. This phobia of all things authorised is at the crux of Gerson Therapy (see the paranoid rant here: http://gersontreatment.com/if-it-is-so-good-why-havent-i/).

      Frankly they're frightening already frightened parents into parting with a great deal of money for absolutely nothing.

      BTW, this guy thinks Max Gerson was "murdered?" He died of of pneumonia. Did they really expect him to live forever?

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    3. I would be curious to see a side-by-side comparison as to how much people who use alt me to "cure" their cancer vs. people who used purely conventional medicine to treat their cancer actually wind up spending on conventional medicine. It is extremely rare that a person just uses alt med. Those people who start with just alt med pretty much all end up in the care of conventional doctors in the end, and because they are in such worse shape, they likely need a lot more medical intervention right as they return to real doctors. There are going to be some really "hardcore" types who stay in denial for longer and call all spread of sickness "healing reactions" but my guess is that the majority of people who go to Gerson wind up back with regular oncologists as soon as they can no longer convince themselves that their cancer spreading is a "flare up".

      Though we would need a real study, it seems to me that the majority of people who do Gerson spend just as much money (mainly through insurance or public system) on conventional medicine as those who don't use Gerson, in addition to the money they spend on Gerson.

      Really all Gerson therapy does is create small interlude where people with cancer are not giving their money to big medicine. How many people return from one of these Mexican clinics with an untreated infection that now requires hospitalization? I bet that if we interviewed family members of Gerson victims, we would find a great many stories of people getting off the plane and going straight to the hospital.

      All alt med does is make people sicker and in so doing it puts even more money in the pockets of big pharma and big medicine. For all those people out there who think there is a conspiracy, maybe this is the conspiracy??? Maybe big medicine is getting more and more relaxed about alt med because they know it will ultimately just increase their profits....

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    4. My chemo infusions were about 12K each visit, and I went in every three weeks for 6 months. My surgeries ran about...not sure, maybe 75K each?

      So yes, very expensive, but because I have insurance I only paid my yearly out-of-pocket which was about 5K, so stuff like Gerson would end up being way more expensive as no insurance company would ever cover it, given that it is entirely lacking in evidence-based results.

      I guess if you had no insurance, it might seem "cheaper" if it weren't for the incredible cost of wasting time and money on something that has no documented successes.

      BTW, the guy running this clinic is a doctor of chiropractic...

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    5. Yes this man is not a doctor in reality, though he calls himself one. I guess it is to put patients at ease. Chiropractors are quacks who have no business treating cancer. It is no wonder that this man does not understand the legal situations which affect oncology or the sort of treatments oncologists use. He has absolutely zero real education in oncology.

      Interestingly enough, they do not take credit cards, which at first seemed strange to me, because a lot of people who do not have $10,000 have a credit card with that limit, or at least someone in their family does. But then it hit me: your credit card company will fight on your behalf to dispute charges. They need cash up front or else they run the real risk of not getting paid by the credit card company. I bet a great deal the people who use one of these clinics have buyer's remorse very soon after leaving.

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  5. Does everyone here believe that nutrition has no impact on cancer? Honestly curious because it seems like there could be a better balance between medical treatment and nutrition. I think it's weird that there is cake at every cancer center I go to.

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    1. I do feel better when I eat the way God wanted us to eat. I go for blood work every month because I have Cll Leukemia in Wait and Watch. If I eat junk food my blood results are worse. I try to eat healthy.

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  6. I don't know about the Gurson institute but I have been reading some of the comments about traditional treatments for cancer. Well your traditional treatments suck!! They have only a 2% success rate and can cause cancer. The first time I had cancer I went that route and now I am terminal. you so called "experts" should realize that the cancer centres gives up on you then and sends you home to die. Well I have discovered there are a lot of natural treatments that have a much higher success rate without killing you from the inside first. I hope if you get terminal cancer that you open your minds to more than conventional treatments.

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    1. You are correct. My mom, sister, niece husband all died of cancer. They were treated with chemo and some radiation. I am sick of the treatments they have for us. With all the money they receive you think they would have a cure by now. Oh if they found one drug to cure us of cancer they would all go bankrupt.

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  7. Very disturbing post.. Thanks for informing us about this.. We have to think about his..
    Tacrol

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  8. What a beautiful day to share love in this quiet day of love. But Cancer has affects all of us, whether you’re a daughter, mother, sister, friend, co-worker, doctor, or patient. Thinking when will I be free from my nightmares but God have his own way of reaching his children, I was once a breast cancer patient for two years and eight months but now, happiness and joy has filled my soul. "ALL THANKS AND PRAISE TO GOD ALMIGHTY" for using Rick Simpson and the entire team of Phoenix Tears Foundation to cure my cancer with the Rick Simpson Cannabis oil, the God sent natural plant (Hemp oil) to help stop this cancer madness on earth. Help a life by reaching the Phoenix Tears foundation at ricksimpsoncannabisoil_phoenixtears@outlook.com or call 850-588-3358 to help save a life today. Nothing is impossible; if I can cure my cancer then you can too.


    Never lose hope fighting cancer, only the strong continues.

    Lindsay Payton, Paloma Lane, Harlingen,Tx

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  9. I went to Dr. Vickers clinic with my mom last Sept (2016) for 3 weeks. It was legit for her. It's an intense protocol especially when you come home. It's not for the wary. We are far from following the protocol as well as we should for faster and better results. Baja is not a perfect program & Dr. Vickers could improve on a few things for sure but we saw results and I've read and learned a TON about the Gerson protocol. It's complex and it's hard to summarize why it can work but I encourage anyone interested to do more reading on it. I'll give a summary of my mom's situation but there is sooooo much more. Hopefully one day when I'm not busy raising my 4 kiddos plus helping my mom with her protocol I can write more about it with her. But I do think the "gerson diet" helps many chronic conditions including cancer and our SAD "Standard American Diet" is what got us the cancer/chronic conditions in the first place! We absolutely need to get back to some common sense when it comes to wellness. We can't keep poisoning ourselves and the environment...it's gotten so out of control in the last few decades.

    So a little about her story which I have her permission to share b/c she wants others to learn from her situation. She was diagnosed with advanced stage melanoma Dec 2015 (on the bottom of her foot). She's always leaned more "holistic" vs. traditional so she was hesitant to have the very invasive surgery to remove a larger margin of the melanoma "spot" which was cut away for the original biopsy. She would need a skin graft b/c of where it was located on her foot and b/c of her age (at the time almost 77 yrs old) she was going to need a plastic surgery b/c of her "thin skin". That alone would be very risky. They couldn't lay out her complete protocol until she did this bigger surgery and also wanted her to have some lymph nodes removed.

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    1. sorry I can't put the entire post in one entry b/c of too many words so I'll post in the reply:
      She decided not to move forward with "traditional" & instead went to see a local MD who did some vitamin C IV's and some other "support" type protocols along with consulting with a natrapath who is trained in nutrition & more wellness principals. We also used Young Living essential oils & products to keep toxic cleaners /personal care products out of the home & their products to support her wellness. She also had her root canals reversed from a holistic dentist in Feb 2016 (root canals are linked to many chronic conditions). She changed her diet to mostly "real whole foods" & no processed foods but unlike Gerson diet she was eating high healthy fats but according to Dr. Gerson cancer patients shouldn't eat avocados/nuts & any oils except a small amount of Flax oil.

      She was doing pretty well & holding her own until summer 2016 I noticed she didn't seem to be doing as well. She didn't look as well, her energy was lower, her belly was bloated & most "alarming" was the lymph node in her groin was enlarged for the first time. (typically advanced melanoma is pretty aggressive and she was warned by the traditional dr's she wouldn't have much time to mess around) so overall we felt like we had already "won" on the time & quality of life side. She was still helping friends with watching/walking their dogs, housesitting, working out with weights & cardio...so still super active for late 70 year old but she was slowing down. She was always about quality and not quantity of life especially being in her late 70's.(I do realize this original post is about kids and that is much more controversial. but I'm just relaying our experience.) So last summer we talked about if she did only have a few months to live would she want to just keep doing what she was doing and knowing it is probably progressing based on labs & the above symptoms or go for a home run...spend the rest of her life savings and try one of these "Gerson clinics" we read off & on about during our holistic research. We already followed Chris Warks website (www.Chrisbeatcancer.com) for wellness principals since her diagnosis & we watched the interview with Chris and Dr. Vickers & even though I didn't know Chris personally it just made it seem legit seeing him in Mexico at this clinic that yes, didn't take credit cards. That freaked me out a bit. I can't remember the reason now, but i did ask about it and my very cautious husband agreed it made sense on why they didn't take credit cards. And yes Dr. V is a chiropractor...he never tries to "hide" that fact but most people who do any research re: holistic know that Chiropractors are trained more about nutrition and wellness than MD's. Although he does have medical dr's at his clinic for any acute medical emergencies. After we watched Chris's video interview we decided for the home run but before we went she decided to get a PET scan to know exactly what we were dealing with before starting the "Gerson protocol".

      Her PET scan showed a small lesion that had metasisized to her lung, & inguinal lymph node. Her liver didn't have involvement like we thought it might so we just assumed her liver was working overtime and swollen from all the detoxing.

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    2. During those 3 weeks at Baja (actually even after a week) we saw improvements before our eyes. Her stomach flattened out, the groin lymph node flattened out, the melanoma spot decreased in size & oddly enough her arthritis in her hands improved...less stiffness & she felt like her fingers were straightening out. That one blew me away and just confirmed what I was learning...so many chronic conditions are signs that are bodies are out of balance YEARS before the cancer shows up.

      We met many cancer patients while we were there b/c each week some people are discharged and new people arrive. There were a few that didn't have cancer but other chronic conditions. We have remained good friends with many of them. Most are still trying to heal. It takes a good 2 years of following the protocol strictly to heal completely. Most were VERY involved cancers but they are still living and fighting. One was an earlier stage cancer and is doing very well. One lady was there to visit the holistic dental clinic b/c it's much less expensive there vs. the states but she was dong super well after following the program for a few years remotely. Out of the 7 or so cancer patients we met, all of them are still alive 9 months later. I do believe one gentlemen who was a very advanced pancreatic cancer probably passed away. He was very ill upon arriving and not responding well to the treatment.

      I do not believe you have to go to the clinics in Mexico to heal/ learn the gerson protocol but it helps to immerse yourself in this totally new lifestyle. I've since learned there is a clinic in Sedona that also follows the Gerson protocol. If we had to do it over again I think we would go there to immerse ourselves and I'm pretty sure they take credit cards. Carrying cash over the border was the scariest part of this whole journey. ;) but there is some additional things they can do in Mexico that cannot be done in the states like Coley's toxins, IV laetrile, hypobaric chamber & a few other things. But I honestly believe the healing takes place with the very specific juicing protocol & the coffee enemas. The supplements also help a ton but I don't think you have to do every last one of them to see some progress.

      A good place to start to learn more is THE original Gerson institute site which Dr. Gerson's family runs. They also have a clinic in Mexico but I hear mixed reviews on the quality of the facility but their program/videos/books/webiste is SUPER organized. I wish we would have bought their workbook/videos before we went to Baja and studied up on it a bit more before we went because there is a HUGE learning curve...it's a complete lifestyle make over & we are still learning/growing. A Cancer Therapy: results of 50 cases and Healing the Gerson Way are 2 good books to start with.

      I think the most complicated thing with holistic healing is your insurance company won't pay for much or any of your treatment once you choose this route (even ordering basic labs we need/want is a pain in the butt and usually just pay out of pocket). And most traditional Dr.'s don't want to follow you if you choose a holistic model...which I get because that is not how they are trained or how the system is set up. But I just wanted to give my 2 cents in case someone is on the fence about following the "Gerson protocol". Clearly my mom is not completely healed so we can't claim this healed her and I honestly don't know if she will 100% reverse her cancer because she doesn't' do the rest portion very well AT ALL and living with us has been stressful for her. She is feisty and independent. She is about to travel and visit family for the summer and she might not follow the protocol as well but she is still active enough to travel and enjoy life and in our book that is what living/thriving is all about.

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    3. Good luck and many blessings to you if you or your loved one was recently diagnosed with cancer or one of the many chronic conditions that ruins lives. Healing holistically is not an easy journey (but either is traditional and often it is a short term solution which cases longer term problems) and it is the road less traveled. It's certainly a very personal choice.

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